For the DX guys . . . vertical or horizontal wire ??

[Billk]

I know this has probably been discussed to death but I would still like to hear some new opinions. If you were setting up a new HF station and had your choice of an all band vertical or some type of long wire / dipole / G5RV etc, which would you choose and why ??? I have heard that wires are generally a lot quieter than verticals as far as man made noise ? Any truth to that ? I have enough room to string up at least a 120 Ft wire or can go with a vertical mounted on the chimney ? Dont want the expense of a tower and beam.

ANy thoughts ?

 

[W5LZ]

Most man made noises are vertically polarized for some reason, so if it was a choice between vert/horz, then I'd select a horizontal antenna. If I could have one of each, I certainly do that too.
And if I could have my wishes, I'd have 4 tall towers to hold up a 160 meter loop, and then an HT18 vertical in the middle of them. Shouldn't take more than about 10 acres I figure. I'll hold my breath till that happens...
- 'Doc

 

[sp5it]

I know this has probably been discussed to death but I would still like to hear some new opinions. If you were setting up a new HF station and had your choice of an all band vertical or some type of long wire / dipole / G5RV etc, which would you choose and why ???

Both of them.
Horizontal of course at least 1/2 wavelength of lowest band over the ground if we talk about DXing.
Mike

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Given the choice of only one decent all band, cheap, low profile antenna I would install a dipole, maybe inverted VEE antenna and feed it with 450 ohm ladder line to a tuner. Cut the antenna for 80m, about 132 feet long or as close as things will allow, and install the feedpoint as high as you can.Get the ends up as high as you can as well. This antenna is very effective but you do need to use an antenna tuner in the shack. The higher the band you operate on the more gain the antenna has. I used one of these for years before I had a yagi and again for a couple years after my tribander was destroyed in a wind and ice storm.

 

[binrat]

I would agree with capt KW, but seeing you have stated a limitation on length, the my response would be to get a Alpha Delta DXCC and put it as high as possible in an invertedVEE or flattop configuration.
I have 1 here and it works great without tuner.

 

[Needle Bender]

I'd encourage you to also consider a 'Maypole' or 'Fan dipole' which you can direct-feed with RG8 and for which you won't need an outboard balanced tuner/coupler as you will if you use 300/450/600 ohm balanced line to tune a single ~132' wire.

You can make the balanced-fed tuned single wire work on all bands but you'll get odd 'starfish' patterns on the bands above the one for which it's cut as a 1/2 wave dipole.

It's also very nice to have an antenna system already tuned for resonance on all the bands, though you'll run into a slightly elevated SWR toward the band edges, still the Maypole has become my favorite - and I used to run an 80m balanced-fed tuned dipole for all bands.

Also, there's typically about a 10%-15% wattage loss factor when using the average/common MFJ, Dentron, Drake, Heathkit, etc. antenna tuner, unless you have a neat old Johnson Matchbox or equivalent.

Read about the Maypole Here, Here and Here

Or Fan dipoles here, though I've come to believe the Maypole design might be a little more efficient, that's just my opinion and it's also necessary to take into consideration space limitations and the yard possibilities.

 

[WA8ZYT]

G5RV=Air cooled dummy load.

 

[6meter]

What HF bands are you wanting to focus on?

For the higher bands something like a Hustler BTV vertical can work very well. If elevated you would need to have a couple of tuned radials for each band.

Considering the low cost of making a dipole that sometimes is the lowest cost option for a first HF antenna. Personally you really want both as depending on conditions and the band you are on it may vary which antenna will work best.

If I was starting from scratch I would make a fan dipole for 10, 20 and 40 meters and try to elevate the feed point to at least 35 - 40 feet. The 40 meter will allow you to tune 15. With those 4 bands you have a variety of frequencies to play on during both the daytime and night time hours.

 

[Needle Bender]

G5RV=Air cooled dummy load.

Hey, that's not at all nice. What did a dummy load ever do to YOU?!?

 

[WA8ZYT]

Sorry, Mr. Dummy Load!

A good alternative to a G5RV is a Windom or OCF dipole. Many manufacturers sell them, if you don't want to roll your own.

Buxcomm is a nice one, but expensive, due to the hight quality stranded copper wire used in it's construction.

 

[W5LZ]

The original post concerns polarization and noise. So what kind of vertical or horizontal type antenna used wasn't part of the question, the same polarity/noise thing would apply.

Everyone has favorite type antennas. Yours may not be mine. Not a problem...
- 'Doc

 

[WD4FCJ]

i have a 23 ft vertical wire inside a fiberglass telescopic pole. with a 4:1 balun. tunes 10 thru 40 meters. been using for years with lots of contacts in Europe and the USA.i use it because of antenna restrictions.. but is works just fine..it is mounted about 6 ft from the ground at the base of the pole. bass pro shops has the 20 ft pole called the black widow..$25.00--you can also contact jakite web sight they also have the 20 ft pole..good luck

 

[Beetle]

I'd be really wary of an antenna of any size mounted to a chimney unless I knew personally how the chimney was made. Typically, they aren't made to support anything except themselves. Put a large lever arm on one is asking for trouble, IMO. YMMV.

 

[Billk]

Just thought I would post an update. I was trying to get something working so I could make a QSO with a friend of mine during the Lighthouse Weekend event Aug 18-19 After looking around on here and the internet, I decided to try making a double bazooka for 20 meters. I had some RG8 mini so I cut it to length, used solid wire for the ends and strung it up temporarily as an inverted Vee along the peak of my garage roof in the front of the house. The peak of the V is at about 14 ft at most. I probably would not have $20 in it even if I had to buy the coax to make it from.

I got it tuned at about 6 pm and tried to make a lighthouse QSO but it was not to be, I think we were actually too close, about 30 miles.

So after talking to my friend on the phone trying to hook up on 20 meters, he mentioned that the North American QSO party was that weekend and I should try the antenna out on some contest QSO's. I have never operated in a contest even though I have been a ham since around 1970, but I figured what the heck.

Well I ate dinner and came back out to the garage where the rig is about 8 PM. Between 8 and 11 PM I made over 40 contacts to all four corners of the country and everywhere in between !!!! This was with my 30 year old TS520, no amp or tuner and the temporary antenna. I am really impressed with how the antenna worked and in the next few weeks I am going to move it up higher to the upper level of the house, about 30ft up, and see what happens. SWR is less than 1.5 to 1 across the whole band. I would like to try and get something up for 40 and 80 by winter but not sure if I will have time. Having a blast on 20 anyway

I added a pic so you could see where the antenna is mounted even though it is not in this picture. It is actually under the overhang on the front of the garage roof. I am going to try and move it up to the upper level this weekend

Just thought I would let you guys know.

 

[wavrider]

Glad you made some contacts with the antenna.

If you are looking for DX and can not get your antenna 1/2 wl in the air then vertical is the way to go.